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The Demonization of Jill Stein

Aug 10, 2016
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Demon SteinAs Jill Stein rises in the polls, even polling better than Trump, the oligarchy’s media outlets have turned up the demonization to eleven.  The plutocratic media and the Clinton campaign which they so obviously serve, are in a panic that, between voters deflecting to the Green and Libertarian parties, that Her Nibbs may not even be able to beat a flaccid chump of a ringer, like Trump.

Let’s take a brief look at a selection of the string of lies, some thoroughly vile, that have been told about Jill Stein and her campaign for the presidency.

It started, in July, with the lie that “90% of Sanders Voters Will Vote For Hillary.” This has turned out to be such a bad lie that even Plutocratic stenographers like Nate Silver have been forced to admit at least some semblance of the truth

…the sizable portion of Sanders supporters defecting from Clinton when given other options could still be a problem for the Clinton campaign if the election tightens.

After that, at the end of July, the Clinton campaign, and its surrogates, started in with the utterly contemptible “Jill Stein is an Anti Vaxxer.” anxiously published by the usual Democratic party Sheepdogs. Of course, this too was revealed to be utter bunk, but still circulates among Hillary Clinton’s ignorant and credulous supporters.

I think there’s no question that vaccines have been absolutely critical in ridding us of the scourge of many diseases — smallpox, polio, etc. So vaccines are an invaluable medication … We have a real compelling need for vaccinations. – Jill Stein, 30 July 2016

As her campaign has gained steam and now that she’s secured the nomination as the Green party’s presidential candidate, a slew of mud is being flung. From questions about her VP’s view on meaningless nonsense, like Beyoncé (no, seriously) to attempts by DNC hacks like John Aravosis to portray Ajamu Baraka as “hating Bernie Sanders,” in an attempt to draw votes for his chosen, neoconservative candidate, Hillary Clinton.

The newest attempt to demonize Jill Stein is her inclusion into Hillary Clinton’s red-baiting, paranoid “enemies list” of people she falsely accuses of being allied with the Russia, somehow, a staple of Democrat propaganda.

A frequent weapon for Democrats in the 2016 election is to publicly malign those they regard as critics and adversaries as Russia sympathizers, Putin stooges, or outright agents of the Kremlin. To put it mildly, this is not a new tactic in U.S. political discourse, and it’s worth placing it in historical context. That’s particularly true given how many people have now been targeted with this attack.

So, what are progressives to do? My suggestion is to ignore these obvious and patently false slanders and show these conservative that run the Democratic party what real progressive action looks like. head on over to Jill Stein’s site and volunteer, talk to your friends and family about voting against the ruling-class parties and even register to run as a write-in Green Candidate for your state, where there isn’t a candidate running. And, most of all, don’t let the bastards grind you down!

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  • Edwin

    First (if we do that here) 🙂

    • Edwin

      Do we?

      • towerofbabel

        Give it a go.

        • Edwin

          I saw someone else do it so I am mimicking them. (But the crown thing is OVER!!)

          Nevin got her crown because she is special and deserves it (and she really really wanted one.)

          • towerofbabel

            Those were some wild times. But now the locusts have landed at Internal Exile.
            I rather like that blog name. It’s smart.

          • notisaidthepig

            Yeah. Love the name.

    • notisaidthepig

      Nah. That’s over, methinks. Gives me flashbacks. I want to think forward, not look back.

      • Edwin

        First goes way back with blogs, back to the early days. It’s the crowning contest that we will leave behind.

        Anyway, I don’t HAVE TO do the first thing, I just did it because I am a trouble-maker and hard to control.

        • notisaidthepig

          Got it. Oink!

  • DriveBy

    I have no particular interest in demonizing Jill Stein. If she offered me a real chance of defeating the Greater Christ-O-Fascist Evil, I’d vote for her in a heartbeat

    • towerofbabel

      That’s who she is DB. I just want the truth spoken in public. By anybody.

      • DriveBy

        So do I, but while I agree with a lot of what she is saying about Hillary Clinton, I cannot ignore the fact that only Hillary Clinton offers a real chance of defeating the Christ-O-Fascist party of anti-Americans.

        • SpiffyTheValiant

          I don’t think she does.

          She has a better chance to win because she has a D by her name. But she’s not defeating Trump people. It’s at BEST a time out if she wins and quite honestly, I think she would bleep us over more than Trump because people will accept a lot of garbage from her that they wouldn’t because she isn’t Trump. Obama gets away with supporting the TPP. Democrats would NEVER give a Republican a pass on that.

          The only difference between Hillary and Republicans are, she’s smarter, believes in science (as long as her donors approve of course), and she’s pro choice. Other than that she IS a Republican. She’s just a Republican from the Reagan Era. Back when they at least could clean up nicely and not foam at the mouth.

          And say she wins because she’s not trump? The Democrats will just put her forward again in 2020, because they know the people will accept that punch to the face. They know we’ll stay in that abusive relationship because the Republicans will just put forward another crazy person. That’s not winning. That’s paying protection money to the mafia, so they don’t smash in your windows.

          • DriveBy

            Yes, Hillary Clinton may still lose against Donald Trump. That does not alter that fact that Hillary Clinton and the Democrats offer the only real chance to defeat Donald Trump and the Republicans. Are you suggesting that Jill Stein has a more realistic chance of winning the Presidency than Hillary Clinton?

            To get me to vote for anybody other than Hillary Clinton and the Democrats, you have to convince me of NOT of how “evil” Hillary Clinton is (I’ve heard it all), but how Jill Stein (or Gary Johnson) offers me a better chance of defeating the Greater Christ-O-Fascist Evil.

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            Does Jill have a realistic chance of winning? No. We didn’t have a realistic chance of defeating the British in the American Revolution, but we did it anyway. Sometimes, you have to actually take the shot, even if you might fail.

            I don’t think she’s actually going to win. But even if Hillary wins. I consider it a LOSS. Voting for her to me, is “defeating” Republicans, by becoming exactly like them.

            But here’s the thing. People have been beaten into submission. it’s very sad. Over 40% of people are Independents, yet only Democrats and Republicans have a “real chance” at winning. So most people are too scared to “waste” their vote. And thus the two main parties, know they can get away with almost anything. We enable them.

            If everyone who said something like, “I like Jill, Gary, or insert name/third party here, BUT they can’t win, voted for them…they would win.

            I doubt there’s going to be some watershed election. Realistically, third parties that hadn’t hit 10% before, aren’t going to win one cycle. But god damn it, it has to start somewhere. If you support her because she’s not trump, that’s fine. But I can’t help but feel incredibly sad for you. It sounds like, you’d vote for Jill if you thought she had a “realistic” chance. Which means you are settling. If that assumption is incorrect and you are supporting Clinton because you actually like her and agree with her on most issues, I apologize for misinterpreting.

          • Rich H

            With all the fraud we’ve seen this year, there’s never been a better time to vote your conscience. I’ll cast my vote for Stein, will it be counted for her, who knows? More than likely it’ll get discarded or switched to Hillary.

            So vote Stein, we’ve got nothing to lose.

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            I’m voting for Jill. I don’t know if my vote actually means anything.

            But I want the Democratic Party to know this isn’t okay. I’m 26. I voted straight blue, since I could vote. Now if I see the greens running for any races, they have lost me. A voter in PA, who likely has decades more voting in their future than the “average Hillary supporter.”

            Bernie was beating her in the youth vote sometimes by margins of 50%. Not smart to spit in the face of those people you are going to need in teh future. I come to the conclusion, they just don’t give a fuck. They either believe we will come around because the alternative is Trump, think they can rig the elections, or they’ll be dead of old age before my generation takes the reigns and banishes them into political history.

          • Rich H

            Hillary is a corrupt, craven, insatiable, tool of the MIC and Wall Street. She’s already said she’s willing to negotiate on abortion. Guess what the republicans will ask for the first time she “pretends” to negotiate with them?

            Hillary will sign the most destructive legislation that comes across her desk. If it makes her and her buddies money, she’s all for it. The rest of us be damned.

            Her record is atrocious, which is why everyone is Trump! Trump! Trump!

            If she had even a Half Decent record to run on it’d be all over the web. But She Doesn’t. And it Isn’t. All of the so-called “progessive/liberal/democratic” blogs are Fear Trump!

            Trump is a buffoon who probably had to hire someone to tie his shoes in the morning – while Hillary is already plotting her next military misadventure.

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            I think you meant to give that to Driveby? You aren’t saying anything I don’t agree with lol.

          • Rich H

            You’re right. I’m just in total agreement with you.

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            🙂

        • towerofbabel

          The thing I like about the Clintons is they are doing the pay-to-play thing right out in the open. Trump might be better at hiding his corruption. But then again, Americans don’t seem to care anymore if their government is completely corrupt so maybe we should vote strictly based on identity politics.

          http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/us/politics/emails-renew-questions-about-clinton-foundation-and-state-dept-overlap.html?_r=2

          • DriveBy

            It’s about more than just the lunatic Donald Trump.

            It’s about giving the power of the Executive to the Christ-O-Fascist Republicans who we’ve already given the Congress to. I can’t do that because one of my grandsons may turn out to be gay in the future, or one of my granddaughters may need an abortion for whatever reason.

    • Rich H

      Excellent, then you should.

      • DriveBy

        That’s dumb. Exactly HOW does she offer me a real chance of defeating the Greater Christ-O-Fascist Evil?

        • Rich H

          Really, we’re going to go this way?

          Alright then, if you support the Green Party and it gets enough votes then in four years they’ll be on all 50 state ballots, get federal funding, and
          be included in the debates.

          If you vote for Hillary, you’ll get the further destruction of our democracy with ZERO hope of positive change. She’ll run again in four years or the 1% will just appoint another “democratic” Wall Street lackey.

          Voting for Hillary is voting to kick the can down the road for another 8 years – let alone all the death and destruction she brings along with her.

          • DriveBy

            Even if all your predictions about the future were true, I vote ONLY in my own interest and in the interest of my loved ones. I do not vote for some “greater good”.

            That interest of mine is NOT served by helping the Christ-O-Fascist Republicans win elections in the short term and that is exactly what denying Hillary Clinton votes does. As always, you have to vote whichever way you think is the best for you and your loved ones, and I have to vote in whichever way I think is best for me and mine.

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            It sounds weird to say your interest isn’t to help the greater good. But I get it. Trump is scary. I’m sure the next guy they put up will also be crazy as fuck. That’s how they keep the Lesser of Two Evil’s alive. Until one day, you wake up and find out… it’s no longer the lesser one.

          • DriveBy

            All I hear is “Hillary is evil” (something that I already know).

            What I’m not hearing is any argument suggesting how Jill Stein offers me a better chance of defeating Donald Trump and the Christ-O-Fascist Republicans which are the Greater Evil than Hillary Clinton.

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            If she hits 15% and gets in the debates, I imagine Hillary and Trump will bleed support once they have a real opponent, who isn’t fighting with one hand behind their back. (Like poor Bernie was.)

          • DriveBy

            She could sure could get into the debates, and that would be a good thing because she’s going to bring up issues that the Democrats and the Republicans don’t want to talk about, but I still don’t understand why helping the Republicans win the White House (which is what draining votes from Hillary Clinton does) serves my best interests.

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            Because it tells the Democratic Party it is acceptable to rig it for someone like Clinton. You will be enabling them to force horrible choices on us again and again, because well eh they are “Trump” (or whoever they put up next time.)

            I don’t agree with the phrase draining votes from Hillary. That assumes she is entitled to them. She either earns them or she doesn’t. Will green votes hurt Clinton? Yes, I hope they do. I will not support evil, just because evil cleans up better than crazy.

          • DriveBy

            I’ve had more than my fill of the Hillary Derangement Syndrome. You’re not telling me anything that I’ve not heard a million times over already from the FreeRepublic.com

            If you’re not going to sell me Jill Stein as someone who has a better chance at defeating Donald Trump than Hillary Clinton, I think we’re done here.

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            Let’s be honest. You aren’t going to vote for Jill no matter what I say. That’s okay. I feel the same way about Hillary.

            And how will you feel if Hillary Clinton loses to Trump anyway?

          • DriveBy

            “Let’s be honest. You aren’t going to vote for Jill no matter what I say.”

            Is that really why you’re refusing to tell me how Jill Stein stands a better chance of winning against Trump than Hillary Clinton does?

            “And how will you feel if Hillary Clinton loses to Trump anyway?”

            I’m going to feel like shit, but I’ll be content with the fact that I tried my best to try to defeat Donald Trump. You win some, and you lose some, right?

            I can tell you that I’d feel like a royal ass if Trump became POTUS and my vote for Jill Stein helped Jill Stein capture almost 1.5% of the vote. ;>)

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            I already told you how she could win. Get her on that debate stage and they will both bleed supporter faster than you can post. WTH happened.

            You win some, you lose some? Yeah, that’s true. Which is why I would rather vote for someone I believe in, rather than sell my soul to someone who might lose anyway.

            Let’s be honest, Trump is trying his best to blow this thing. I expect he’ll steal candy from a baby on camera soon. People who didn’t believe Bernie was beating Trump by double digits, now suddenly love polls again. I believe she’s ahead. I also believe that if Trump actually had his mouth duct taped, he would probably beat her.

          • DriveBy

            “I already told you how she could win. Get her on that debate stage and they will both bleed supporter faster than you can post. WTH happened.”

            You’ll have to get her on that stage without my support, I’m afraid. If I believed in fairy tales, I’d be calling myself “Christian”, and you’ll notice that I’m not. 😀

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            That’s okay. Not everyone wants to stick their neck out to get the ball rolling. Perhaps, if she does get on that debate stage, you will see that you deserve better than someone like Clinton.

          • DriveBy

            If Jill Stein rises to the level of a viable candidate, then we’ll see. Until she does that, Hillary Clinton remains The Lesser Evil

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            Yeah. Thing is, if everyone says, “not until she’s viable,” she’ll never be viable and neither will anyone else who doesn’t have an R or D by their name.

          • DriveBy

            She’ll have to become viable with someone else’s vote, I’m afraid, not with mine.

            My vote will be used as intended -> In my own personal selfish interests and for no other reason. That’s what the individual right to vote is for, remember?

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            And quite frankly, I view her as evil. Trump is just insane.

          • DriveBy

            That’s your right. I’m not here to argue over that.

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            Well it is brave of you to stick your neck out, when your opinion isn’t the majority here. 😛 Wish you applied that to your voting habits. But good luck.

          • DriveBy

            Thank you. I don’t mind talking to people who disagree with me completely because (a) I could always learn something I didn’t know and (b) I risk losing nothing by talking.

            As long as we’re willing to agree to disagree without becoming disagreeable, there was nothing lost by talking. I wish I could say the same about my attempted conversation with “Rich H”, but I’m afraid I can’t. 🙁

            Win some, lose some, right?

            Take care.

          • Rich H

            Pulling HDS. I don’t think it means what you think it does.

          • DriveBy

            That’s neither here nor there.

            Why are you so reluctant to sell me Jill Stein as a viable alternative?

          • Rich H

            I’m not, nor is anyone else. You seem to think Democratic Nukes Good, Republican Nukes Bad.

            Then you pull the HDS BS. Sorry, but that’s really low level trolling. If you’d like a list of why Hillary would be a disaster I’ll post it. If you want to know why Stein is a better alternative, I’ll post it. If you want links proving the coordinated MSM attacks on Trump, I can post that too.

            Or, you could just go to the Green Party website and read what they have to offer. Or, you can vote for Hillary – but don’t pretend she’s better than Trump, and don’t call people dumb for actually knowing her record. She’s an utter disaster.

            I’ve already posted to you why Stein is the Far Better alternative, but people who ignore Actual, Factual, Records and go with HDS – are…. Hey, at least you didn’t say we were from Red State.

          • DriveBy

            “You seem to think Democratic Nukes Good, Republican Nukes Bad.”

            No Democrat had threatened to use nukes and I’ve never advocated the use of nukes.

            This is the second time you’ve tried to put words into my mouth and I’ve had enough of that kind of dishonest bullshit.

            Goodbye.

          • towerofbabel

            Actually Hillary overtly threatened to nuke Iran. Wake up DB.

          • DriveBy

            I’m awake enough to see that your Hillary Derangement Syndrome is making you fear-monger about what Hillary Clinton may have “overtly” suggested in the opinions of some Hillary-haters, while completely ignoring Donald Trump’s blatant suggestion that he would even nuke European nations.

            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-refuses-to-rule-out-using-nuclear-weapons-in-attack-on-europe-a6961101.html

          • Rich H

            That’s the Nader myth, and that’s just plain, not, true. Even the totally in the bag, DK shreds it.

            http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/6/1260721/-The-Nader-Myth

          • DriveBy

            WHAT does “the Nader myth” have to do with anything I’ve said? For the and the record, I’ve never blamed Nader for anything, and I’ve never blamed those who voted for Nader for anything.

            Voting is an individual right and there’s no wrong candidate for you to vote for. You can choose to vote for Hillary Clinton, Jill Stein, or even Donald Trump and I would still respect your right to vote for whoever you choose to vote for.

          • Rich H

            You’re using it (inadvertently apparently) by suggesting a vote for Stein is vote taken away from Hillary. That a vote for Stein will (in essence) be a vote for Trump.

            You’ve noted how horribly rotten Clinton is, but will not consider voting for a candidate you (not intentionally perhaps) acknowledge would be better because she doesn’t have a chance to win.

            That is the essence of the LTE argument.

          • DriveBy

            I was talking about MY VOTE. I can only vote for one candidate for POTUS (you know that, right?) so tell me : How does voting for Jill Stein, and thus denying Hillary Clinton MY VOTE, serve my best interests?

            By equating my position with “the Nader myth”, you’re being dishonest and you should stop that.

          • Rich H

            Dishonest? Good luck with that tack.

          • towerofbabel

            Hillary needs to EARN VOTES to win. That’s how an election works. In this climate it wouldn’t take too much for Clinton to win in a landslide. The fact that she seems constitutionally opposed to listening to half of her base (assuming it’s not just Wall Street) says a lot about how she views a Trump win. She apparently doesn’t care either. So why berate us when it’s really in Clinton’s hands and she doesn’t care one whit.

          • DriveBy

            “Hillary needs to EARN VOTES to win. That’s how an election works.”

            No, that is NOT how elections work.

            The way elections work is, voters look at the candidates on offer and pick the one who serves their interests the best… or they vote AGAINST the candidate they want to defeat. A vast majority of the American people will butt-vote FOR the candidate they’d normally have voted AGAINST had they bothered to get off their butts.

            THAT’S how elections work.

            One of the only two viable candidates on offer WILL become the next President of the United States, and whoever that winner is will become the President without “EARNING” anybody’s vote. He or she will become President simply by virtue of being the nominee of one of the only two viable political parties in America. Hillary Clinton will get my vote, not because she has “EARNED” it, but because I’ll be voting to defeat the candidate of the Christ-O-Fascist party.

          • Rich H

            Trust me, she cares. I’m sure she’s thinking of all the billions she’ll be able to grift once she gets elected.

          • Rich H

            Way back when, the threshold was 5% and was changed to 10% because a democratic candidate reached that threshold (was it McCarthy?), then, after Perot reached 10% the DNC changed it to 15%.

            Two things, I expect the vote counters to keep Stein’s votes below the 15% threshold. If the few honest states we have left (that doesn’t include CA by the way) pushes her above that number, I expect the DNC will change it once again, this time to 20%.

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            I wouldn’t doubt it.

          • Rich H

            Fine. I think what’s best for Everyone is to keep our military adventures at a minimum. That’s just for starters. If you think supporting an international war criminal is the best possible solution – go for it.

          • DriveBy

            Oh, I am going for it. The way I see it, better Hillary Clinton than the Republican who is threatening to bring back torture and use nukes – even in Europe.

          • Rich H

            Right, better that than the democratic party that has Already brought nukes to the border of Russia, to the party that approved a trillion dollar improvement in our nuclear weapon capabilities, to the democrats who also happen to approve of black sites and torture, to democrats who expanded warfare in the M.E. to Syria and Lybia – and threatened the use of force against Iran.

            They’re so rational.

          • Stockholm is calling. You vote for your “Business-O-Facist Republican, Clinton, and see where that gets you. Right in the quicksand you’re already in, and you know it.

          • DriveBy

            You’ve convinced me. I’ll now vote for the racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, homophobic, trans-phobic, pro-rape and pro-rapist anti-choice Christ-O-Fascist alternative to Hillary Clinton.

            Thank you for opening my eyes to what I was about to do. 😀

          • You’re a hoot. Like a so-bad-its-good movie. Everything is on the surface with you: your motivations, your self-justifications, your projection, your re-directed anger.

            Keep up the posts, you make us all laugh, and we kinda need a town clown.

          • DriveBy

            I’m glad you approve.

            I’m here all week. 😀

      • towerofbabel

        DB hasn’t changed a bit since before I was banned from Raw many years ago. Thick.

  • cathyx

    She feels confident she will be on the ballots in 49 states. Oklahoma is not possible, but that state wouldn’t make much difference anyway.

    • Oklahoma is, seriously, outright anti-democracy.

      • cathyx

        Part of the problem with Oklahoma was their deadline to petition to get her name on the ballot was earlier than other state, before Stein became more popular due to Bernie bowing out. Luckily we can get it on the other state’s ballots in time.

        • They also have a ridiculously high standard to meet , in order to become a recognized party and run candidates. Which they couldn’t get to this year, again, because, Bog save me, they couldn’t get 26,000 Okies to sign a petition to get them recognized.

          ARGH. Just talking about such stupidity makes smoke come out of my ears.

          • cathyx

            You know, no candidate needs Oklahoma anyway to win, so that lessens the blow.

          • Rich H

            First, they’d have to find 26,000 literate Okies. I think that’s the problem.

      • MsPythia

        And yet, the progressives in that State voted Bernie!

  • towerofbabel

    Agnotology is the study of the deliberate production of ignorance in modern society (Robert Proctor, Stanford). Agnotologies (think climate change denial by corporate oil-scientists) are the principle techniques used by the quasi-democratic government who stages our elections. Nothing can be taken at face value any longer, and probably never should have in the past.

    • Edwin

      America is #1 in Agnotology. (It’s an ignorance factory.)

  • Edwin

    Unka, are your threads open or is the topic here Stein and we should stick to it?

    (Note: We are an unruly mob and often hard to control. We are obstreperous.)

    • I’m not going to stop the chat going where it will, though with articles like this is will, I think, mostly stick to topic. The Open Threads are here just to give folks a place to post willy-nilly! 🙂

      • Nancy

        ahh, thanks for that!
        awesome.

      • Rich H

        It’s funny, you offered to help TBR with your expertise and in effect they said “we’ll have none of that professionalism around here”. They were rude, nasty, and then Boom!

        Thanks for this place. It’s literally 1,000s of times better.

      • Edwin

        OK. Just wanted to know.

        We are fans of the willy-nilly. You might even consider a mid-day open thread. Easy to do and people like to chat (off topic). It’s hard to herd cats. 🙂

        • We’ll have to see. So far we look good with the two, but we can expand as needed.. and we won’t have too many other posts at once anyways…

          • Edwin

            That’s true. The OTs won’t be hard to find 🙂

            And I’ll stop telling you how to run your blog. 🙂

          • I’m happy to hear any suggestion. Everybody has good ideas and I can’t always see the forest for the trees!

    • Also: I’m going to put up a morning and evening open thread, plus any articles We have put up by our authors (myself or whoever) during the day. So, there can be a lot more granularity to the threads!

      And, of course, you’re all welcome, especially you Edwin, to sign up on the WordPress site and publish your own missives. 🙂

    • Rich H

      Since we were on the subject of Karoli yesterday, I’ve got to tell you what happened (in 100 words or less) what happened at Crooners.

      There was a disagreement over the length of music threads, and someone (who’ll go unnamed) went of the literal deep end. I agreed with IP and the shit really hit the fan. For some reason it all moved over to Plums (I don’t know why) and the nut job posted Phil and I were actually Karoli and Susie – and got about a dozen upvotes (and these were all people we knew from C&L).

      IP’s still pissed. Me? It’s kind of funny. I mean, I haven’t forgotten it – but in the scheme of things, who cares?

      • Edwin

        How do I miss all this shit? (the answer to that is I focus like a laser on what interests me at the moment and am oblivious to other things right under my nose – a shiny objects syndrome, but not so superficial; deep meditation)

        What is fucking wrong with people? (the answer to that is there are a lot of spineless sheep not willing to assert themselves and hopeful someone else will do their thinking for them and tell them how to feel. It’s the Dems secret to success. Hillbots are my exhibit A,. What a bunch of mindless obedient fuckers they are.)

        I’m sorry you guys had to go through that shit. The site was never the same after you guys left. I had a sad for a long time and often said so. I even got into it with m_k. I defended you guys (Purge #1ers). She backed down. (She’s is extremely loyal to that site.)

        Do you have a link? I’d like to see.

        • Rich H

          I know IP does, for me, I’d have to search for it somehow. I don’t know if I can. Funny though, anyone reading my posts thinks I’m Karoli (or Susie). ROFL.

          • Edwin

            Who in their right mind would ever think that???? Your posts are nothing like theirs. Totally different wavelengths.

            I think I mistakenly credit a lot of people with intelligence they simply do not have.

          • Rich H

            I found it but a couple of things. One, the initial blow up was over the music videos. IP suggested there be a music thread because people were slamming the open threads (like this one) with hundreds of video, which had nothing to do with the initial post and slowed everything down to a crawl.

            Imagine trying to have a conversation like you are here, now imagine two or three posters posting a few hundred videos each throughout. It was messy and unwieldy – and the person who wanted to be in charge of the “music thread” – when there actually wasn’t one – went ballistic.

            Two, that wasn’t the final straw. The final one was the person who ran the blog ran an article from RT with three well respected, western, economists on it – I no longer recall who it was.

            By coincidence the person who wanted to be the music honcho had an absolute meltdown over the source. He went so far as to post he had been the Direct Victim (!!!) of Russian propaganda and Russia’s state run news and literally had a balls out meltdown, totally freaked out – and I was like, it’s the content, not where it came from.

            Well, everything went downhill from there.

            In the thread there’s a few things. It’s been changed since this initially transpired. IP has removed his discuss account and all of his comments (not just there, everywhere), so there’s nothing of his to refer to.

            The “music” fellow posted as proof a bunch of screenshots of what happened between the blog operator and other posters – but conveniently left out Any screenshots of what he said and posted to get the ball rolling. Basically, he lit the fire, stocked it, threw gas all over it, and burnt the place to the ground – yet he somehow managed to not capture Anything he wrote.

            Go figure that one.

            Also, the post where he accused me and IP of being Karoli and Susie doesn’t seem to be there anymore. Though there is one where he says we acted like both of them.

            It was there, he did post it, that’s why IP got so pissed. As for me, I don’t care too much (or mostly not at all) what people say about me.

            The problem is there will be posters you recognize and respect, as for what I posted to get all the grief (at the time) was basically nothing.

            I think you’ll see Hito and me being totally rational.

          • Rich H

            Whoa, long post.

          • Edwin

            I don’t know what to fucking say.

          • Rich H

            Yeah, no biggie. I don’t need the drama any more (not that I ever did). When you asked if I could find it I thought I’d give it a try.

          • Edwin

            Karoli’s posts sound like they’re written by a bitch and so do Susie’s. Yours are interesting and always a pleasure to read.

            (Hi, girls. Happy reading. I owe you nothing, you backstabbers.)

  • towerofbabel
    • notisaidthepig

      Wow. I wouldn’t believe it if someone told me about it. But now I’ve seen it with my own eyes… so yeah. That is indeed Trust with a capital T.

  • towerofbabel

    Feminist Ilhan Omar won her primary here in Minneapolis. This is good because she will be running against a Republican Somali-American candidate. There will likely be strong Somali support for both candidates in this community. We need to keep it Progressive /Liberal.

    • notisaidthepig

      Excellent news.

  • notisaidthepig

    Good morning, everyone. Great post! I’ve contacted the Stein campaign and will be volunteering here in NV in some capacity. Take that, Dems!

    • RTIII

      I first donated, then applied to volunteer, then applied for a job!

      Still waiting to hear back about all that. And in the mean time I’m trying – in between what else I’m doing – to get CAforJill.org going! 🙂

      • notisaidthepig

        Cool. WE are the revolution after all.

      • MsPythia

        You rock RT!

  • RTIII

    Morning.

    Good article above. Should have links to back up those assertions, but for our little crowd, we really don’t need them – we’ve all seen this shit first hand!

    Have time to get my coffee in me, etc, but I have a lot to do today – won’t be here most of the time but will try to lurk! 🙂

    • Which ones are missing links? I’m happy to add any to the dozen links in there!

      • RTIII

        Oh, sorry, Unka! Didn’t notice your reply until now! … It turns out I was wrong; you have plenty of links! 🙂 I’ll blame it on lack of sufficient coffee that early in the AM! 🙂

  • Nancy

    repost:

    FYI- we all left The Banned Room yesterday morning, began posting here, and it was only during the evening were we banned by the site owners.

    we left-they didn’t ban us off there.

    the damage control and spin on their part is not surprising.

    just. more. lies.

    • notisaidthepig

      Thanks, Nancy. This needs to be here as well. I’m going to restate that those of us who left TBR on our own are being smeared as having Hillary Derangement Syndrome. This by people I trusted and respected.

      As I said before: I was sad about what happened there but now I’m getting angry. Soon I
      won’t give a shit. That’s something coming from a pig. Oink!

      • QueenSpiffy

        This from people who since MAY where right there with us talking about how horrible Clinton was. Two faced.

        • towerofbabel

          What does it take to turn someone 180 degrees on Clinton? Peer pressure? Money? You don’t change deeply held beliefs at the drop of a hat. So what was it? Anyway the swarm is nesting here. Don’t poke the hive.

          • notisaidthepig

            Money.

          • QueenSpiffy

            I know it isn’t money in this case.

            It’s a very long tale lol. There was a lot going on behind the scenes. I’m not sure how much you already know.

          • notisaidthepig

            Insanity then.

          • QueenSpiffy

            It was paranoia.

          • notisaidthepig

            Right….

          • QueenSpiffy

            Just like Hillary’s little arrow.

          • towerofbabel

            I knowz nozing. And I get I am happier for it.

          • MsPythia

            Well supposedly (not sure if it’s truth or a lie) they’re communicating with Roxanne from Raw Story — I can’t help but poke that hive because it appears that she’s really got it in for a lot of people who used to comment in her blog who she banned because we weren’t for Clinton and weren’t shy about telling others exactly why.

          • Rich H
        • MsPythia

          Yeah, that’s the thing. Hypocrisy is always disgusting.

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            I wonder what changed because I doubt it was REALLY her VP making a couple of snooty remarks.

          • MsPythia

            It’s just one more piece of bizarre-ness isn’t it? I guess they really never had any real conviction about how horrible Shillz is?

      • Nancy

        unbelievable…too bad they are behaving like this.
        it only makes what others have said about them, true.
        they really should stop and let it go. this is not doing them any good.

      • The_Fixer

        It’s not derangement when it is backed by publicly available facts and data which they choose to ignore.

    • Nevin

      They can’t afford to be banning people or they will end up with post every 6 hours. Oh wait…

      • QueenSpiffy

        Those are some powerful hooves.

        • Nevin

          For the most part Taurus are easy going people. You fuck with us and all bets are off.

          • QueenSpiffy

            yup

          • Nancy

            my daughter and mother are taurus.
            yup!

          • MsPythia

            My father, sister, and brother-in-law. Yup! 🙂

          • Nancy

            we mostly have virgo people in my family.
            nothing worse than “virgo gone bad” man, we are critical and judgmental people at times.

          • MsPythia

            Are you a Virgo too? I’m a Libra.

          • Nancy

            yup…
            I know Libras to be fair and just people-that sure fits you!

          • MsPythia

            I try. I’m far from a perfect Oracle though. 🙂

          • Nancy

            damn close!
            😉

          • MsPythia

            Aw — you’re sweet! Thanks! <3

      • Nancy

        it’s sad to see what’s happening there. they had a good thing-we were a great posting community. now we are somewhere else being a great community. we can’t be owned.

        • QueenSpiffy

          I was actually sad about it. Until I saw that culling the Jill Stein supporter thing.

          • Nancy

            they are doing themselves in. I am sad in that we all had a place that was great fun…it’s gone and now we are here!

          • Nevin

            I’m still sad I will never be Queen. 🙁 I had high hopes I was going to win the next time.

          • QueenSpiffy
          • Nevin

            Oh Spiffy, I like.

          • QueenSpiffy

            🙂

          • Nancy

            beautiful-that’s even her birthstone!!!

          • QueenSpiffy

            😀

          • Nancy

            right?! I am sad for you too!

          • The_Fixer

            Aww, Blue, it would have been nice to see. But hey, would you like to rule over such a “kingdom”? It was/is pretty crazy over there.

          • Nevin

            You’re right.

          • MsPythia
          • Nevin

            I can wear one during the day and the other at night.

          • Nancy

            a girl can never have too many crowns!

          • Nevin

            Which one are you wearing now?

          • Nancy

            the shell one-being that I am still at the lake. heading into the city later will don the gold one for there.

          • MsPythia

            Since you never got one, you had to have two!

      • 17

        Must suck to have more Moderators than commenters.

        • Nevin

          LOL

        • Nancy

          hahaha…

        • The_Fixer

          Wait, they have Oculus and panem and maybe 3 others. They may have one more commenter than they have moderators.

        • MsPythia

          I owe you an apology 17! I didn’t know you very well because I rarely posted to C&L, so I was taking their word for what was going on. I shouldn’t have and I’m really sorry for that. I hope you’ll forgive me.

          • 17

            MsP, I don’t think you owe me an apology at all. I’ve never read or heard a bad word from you about any of that situation. And if I had, how could you have known the whole story when only one version was permitted? There’s nothing to forgive you for.

            I knew of your internet troubles, and knew that you were being told that I was involved in them, but there was no way I could tell you that I had nothing to do with them. That’s why one of the first things I did when you got here was to tell you that.

            Please don’t give it another thought.

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            I’m also sorry ;/

          • 17

            Do you still have the link to The Cornfield? Can you meet me there?

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            ok

          • MsPythia

            I just feel bad because we were being told a lot of bad things about you, and it appears that none of that was true. I tend not to try to get into the middle of other people’s arguments with each other, but even when all that was happening, I didn’t speak up. I feel bad that so many were being treated with so much disrespect, and I didn’t know, and didn’t really try to know. That’s all I mean by saying this — that I’m not feeling great about the fact that I didn’t try to get both sides.

          • 17

            Forget it. Live and learn. We’re good. 😉

          • Dosido3

            Same here…what MsP said. OTOH I obviously didn’t know R or ND very well either. Peace.

    • MsPythia

      Oh, we’re all banned from The Banned Room now? I hadn’t heard that. Wow, we must be AWFUL!

      • QueenSpiffy

        If you post here, you are probably already banned and just haven’t realized it yet.

        • MsPythia

          Are you banned too Spiffy?

          • QueenSpiffy

            Yes, I am another fallen tribute.

          • MsPythia

            Ah well. <3

          • QueenSpiffy

            <3

      • Nancy

        yup…
        very awful!!! and bad too.

        • MsPythia

          Diabolical, even? How sad.

          • QueenSpiffy

            But wait there’s more…

          • Nancy

            flip for that info?

          • QueenSpiffy

            lol well we already posted it on this thread. But sure.

          • Nancy

            oh ok…sorry!

          • QueenSpiffy

            lol always happy to have everyone there anyway.

          • MsPythia

            Okay — I don’t want to bore people by asking for the rundown again.

          • QueenSpiffy

            <3 you could never bore people.

          • MsPythia

            <3 😀

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            <3

          • MsPythia

            Sure.

          • QueenSpiffy

            😉 might want to edit that postie.

          • Nancy

            yup

      • Nevin

        You especially with your damn cupcakes.

      • The_Fixer

        Yes, Ms. P! Even I got banned (haven’t posted there since Thursday or Friday). It’s my first banning! I’m so excited 😛

        • SpiffyTheValiant

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdvhDM1Cqqg

          Like a virgin, banned for the very first time…

          • The_Fixer

            LMFAO!

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            😉

        • MsPythia

          Congrats Fixer. You’ve got a ways to go to beat me! I can’t post to any progressive blogs practically — I was too progressive for them. :p

          • The_Fixer

            Thank you, MsP. I follow in the footsteps of trailblazers like yourself. Try as I may, I don’t think I’ll be able to top you. You’ve set the bar too high 🙂

          • MsPythia

            😀 Hahaha! That makes me sound more badass than I really am.

          • Nancy

            your reputation precedes you!
            😉

  • Nancy
    • Rich H

      Are they happy because they just framed someone?

      • Nancy

        lol, I knew someone would have something like that to post!
        possibly…the guy in the orange shirt is retiring. you’d think he’d be sad that he can’t be an asshole anymore…

    • The_Fixer

      What, they have black people in Colorado Springs now? Huh! I thought it was just full of church steeples and white-as-rice preachers!

      • Nancy

        lol, I thought it was fun and totally disregard the fact they are cops.
        they have legal pot…nothing much will surprise me anymore!

  • MsPythia

    Great article Unka Willbur! Jill and Ajamu get my vote!

  • QueenSpiffy

    Watch Jill live during a CNN Town Hall airing at 9 p.m. ET, August 17.

  • The_Fixer

    Hey, Unka – good article. I noticed that John Aravosis’ carrying water for the DNC and Hillary did not escape your notice. I used to hang there. Not sure if you know the recent history of that place, but it sure struck me as strange. Jon Greene was running it for a while – I was under the impression that Aravosis had sold the blog to Greene because he’d taken a job with the U.N. and could not have an online political presence. There were tearful goodbyes and he was supposed to never come back.

    1 year later, he’s back. Coincidentally, the election started to rev up. Greene was a Bernie supporter, Aravosis, obviously, is not. I liked Jon Greene, he’s a very bright guy whose analysis was always thought out carefully, even if you didn’t always agree with all the finer points of what he was saying. While I respect Aravosis for his gay activism, it is clear that the purpose of his articles is primarily to generate outrage and support for HRC through slanted articles that omit crucial details.

    Shortly after he came back and it was clear what direction he was taking, I exited. I still check back there occasionally to see what’s going on – same old, same old. I am saddened by the people who comment there being of like mind to Aravosis. The atmosphere is one of “If you’re not on board with Hillary, you’re supporting Trump, and you’re wasting your time even thinking about Jill Stein because she’s a fringe nut who can’t get elected.”

    This is hilarious coming from a bunch of self-proclaimed activist/old hippies. They don’t quite get what we’re trying to do here in building a movement. But then again, it’s outside their comfort zone, so they don’t want to understand.

    • QueenSpiffy

      They just don’t get that choosing between Trump and Hillary is like choosing between getting fatally shot and a terminal cancer.

      • The_Fixer

        Somebody recently said it was like choosing between two horrible diseases. How true!

        • TheValiantSpiffy

          yup yup

        • Nancy

          cholera and gonorrhoea
          Julien Assange.

          • The_Fixer

            Yes, thanks for refreshing my marginal memory.

          • Nancy

            another shitty thing about aging!

          • The_Fixer

            Yeah, I was thinking that, too, but forgot….

          • Nancy

            I see what you did there.

          • The_Fixer

            🙂

          • Rich H

            What? I couldn’t hear you.

        • My favorite comparison is the nerdy, “Choosing between Clinton and Trump is like choosing between Lex Luthor and The Joker.”

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            hmm… More like Two faced and the joker.

          • Well, IMHO, Clinton is definitely Luthor: The Big-business, evil-asshole with no respect for your average Joe. But that’s a nerd-fight best left to Saturday night at WorldCon! :))

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            I saw Smallville. So I have a somewhat more chartiable view on lex lol.

          • MsPythia

            Yes. Agreed.

      • Rich H

        At least it’s possible to get shot in the leg (or something). Hillary’s the worst of All Possible outcomes.

        • SpiffyTheValiant

          yup

    • Well, I missed the Greene era, apparently, having been driven away by Aravosis’ awful politicking in 2008. But, whether running Americablog or not, he’s definitely, IMO, a boil on the ass of American politics! 😀

      • The_Fixer

        Yeah, he fancies himself a “power-player”, but is really much more of a foot soldier following orders. He name-drops and it’s clear to me that he is part of the “Brock Army.” I did see the stuff you are talking about back then as well, and put everything through a filter. There used to be a huge number of comments there, and some good ones. But as time went on, they moved away.

        I honestly think his best work is the gay activism. He should have stuck with that.

        • MsPythia

          Markos Moulitsas fancies himself a power player too. Also in the tank for Clinton.

          • cathyx

            He’s also quite authoritarian. And i understand he has a military background.

          • MsPythia

            Yes, I think you’re right. I’ve met him once before. He lives in Berkeley. It was only a hello, but he gives off the vibe that he thinks he’s a real somebody.

          • The_Fixer

            Yes, “Kos” is a nickname he picked up in the military. I don’t remember which branch of the service that he was in, perhaps Marines or Army. But he does not fail to make mention of it.

            He never really impressed me the times I saw him on TV.

  • TheValiantSpiffy

    So what you guys think of my new name and pic 🙂

    • Nancy

      nice! suits you.

      • SpiffyTheValiant

        ty.

    • Nevin

      Why the change?

      • SpiffyTheValiant

        Other avatar and screen name too closely associated with TBR for me. Plus I was called valiant by a couple people. (And who doesn’t love a rainbow kitten butterfly unicorn?)

        • Nevin

          Next you will be sprinkling fairy dust.

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            Glad you asked.

    • The_Fixer

      I like, but you’ll always be my Queen. The Valiant Queen.

      Say, I used to own a Plymouth Valiant. Does that count for anything in Your Majesty’s Court?

      • SpiffyTheValiant

        of course it does.

        • The_Fixer

          Thank you, Your Majesty!

          • SpiffyTheValiant

            <3 I could stick queen in there, but it'd be pretty long.

      • Rich H

        Sweet. Did it have the push button transmission on the dash? My sister had one, sort of that light, sea mist, green/blue.

        • MsPythia

          I love that color on old cars! I wish they had exciting colors like that now, but it’s rare.

        • The_Fixer

          Mine was a ’65, no pushbutton tranny. I did have a ’63 Dodge that had one of those. I felt like I was in command of a spaceship when driving it. A slow, early-60s version of a spaceship, but hey. It was fun 🙂

          And it was a light-medium, blue.

          • Rich H

            Excellent, years ago when I was still in school I took an auto design class and on the first day the teacher asked what feature we’d add to any of today’s (then) cars if we could. Everyone answered with standard features, I said “push button transmission and put the high beam control back on the floor where it used to be. There’s too much clutter on the steering wheel as it is”.

            All the kids (I was in my early 30’s when I made it back to school) looked at me like I was from Mars because they had No Idea what I was talking about.

            The teacher, smiled, nodded, and approved.

  • Nevin

    At 16 I was glad I had a drivers license. This young woman is amazing.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/09/africa/orange-drought-kiara-nirghin/index.html

    • Necessity is the mother of invention, and all that!

    • Nancy

      yes, that is amazing. I love smart kids!!!

      • Nevin

        Considering so many countries are experiencing drought this is literally a life saver.

        • Nancy

          the pic of the animal is heartbreaking. I know it’s the same and worse, for people.

          • Nevin

            Yes it was.

    • Rich H

      Wow. Nothing snarky to say here. What an awesome job.

    • MsPythia

      That’s amazing! The whole world is going to be using her invention before long with climate change.

      • Rich H

        Google will buy it and give her 2 cents on the dollar. Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

        • MsPythia

          I was thinking when I read that story that she’s going to make a fortune. You just burst my bubble with your comment, because you’re right. She’ll sell it to some giant corporation like Monsanto who will cheat her, and then try to charge everyone an exorbitant rate for it. I hope she has someone who can steer her away from all large corporations, and that she maintains at least partial ownership of her invention.

          • Rich H

            I’m sorry. I was just thinking of how corporate law works, in that if you’re a scientist who develops something while on their payroll (even if it’s at home, not work related, and you discovered/built something in your garage) the corporation owns it.

            Seeing googles name associated with it just made me think there’s got to be fine print in their somewhere.

          • MsPythia

            Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. My father-in-law invented a machine that quickly and cleanly fills petri dishes with agar for use in labs, but he wasn’t allowed to to own the patent to his invention because he was working for a company at the time and whatever he invented became theirs. Most labs are still using the design he came up with to this day.

        • The_Fixer

          I would love it if she open-sourced it. That would take the bite away from corporations like Google and Monsanto.

          Her motivation is that she wants to help the world and make a difference, not a killing in the marketplace. I would think open-sourcing it would be a natural. Not to mention that it would fuck up commercial plans to modify the formula slightly, patent it, and enrich themselves.

          • Rich H

            That’s a good idea. Imagine what’d happen if Monsanto got it’s hands on it.

          • MsPythia

            That would be awesome! She’d be a modern day Tesla (he basically gave away a lot of his inventions) or Jonas Salk (gave the world the polio vaccine for free to eradicate the disease)

  • The_Fixer

    The best part of this story is that Glen Beck has staffers named Cheatwood and Weasel. You just can’t make that up:

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2016/08/glenn-beck-boston-marathon-bombing-226841

    Seriously, I am glad this guy is fighting back against what is clearly horseshit, Glen Beck’s specialty.

    • SpiffyTheValiant

      lol

    • MsPythia

      That’s hilarious!

  • Nevin

    This is whose support Hillary was falling all over herself to get. Kissinger is a POS.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/09/henry-kissinger-mass-killings-argentina-declassified-files?CMP=twt_a-world_b-gdnworld

    • SpiffyTheValiant

      Anyone else think i’ts weird he has kiss in his name? Kiss of death more like it.

      • Nancy

        I always see “Kissingmyass” when I see him or his name.

        • SpiffyTheValiant

          lol

        • 17

          That’s not fair! The bots at C&L thought I was a seventeen year old girl, so I let them if I thought they were being too obnoxious.

          • I am literally ROFLing!

          • Nancy

            what’s in a name, right?

          • 17

            That’s what I keep telling my younger brother 16, and my older sister 18. Gramdma 143 doesn’t see the humor, though.

          • Nancy

            hahaha…poor grandma!

    • Rich H

      War Criminals for Hillary. Don’t forget Albright and Cheney.

      • MsPythia

        Imagine who Hillary will pick for Sec. of State. I shudder at the thought.

        • Rich H

          Pick someone? Why I’m sure she can handle it all by herself.

          I put forth a motion to attack Iran.
          I second the motion.
          The ayes have it.

          • MsPythia

            She was a terrible Sec. of State. I can’t even believe that this is what they hold up as her “experience.”

      • Or any of the half-dozen PNAC Necons supporting her!

        • MsPythia

          There’s even more now — she’s reeled in ALL the Neocons.

          • 17

            It helps to be an expert on closet contents.

    • MsPythia

      One of the truly great things about Bernie being in the primary was that it made people research what an evil person Kissinger truly was. I’ve been seeing a lot of articles about what he did with his power — none of it good. And it really points up how screwed up Hillary is that she’s such good friends with him and actually looks up to him.

  • FYI, today’s Morning Open Thread is live.

    • cathyx

      Thank you Unka.

      • NP. Now, note: This is just a reminder (and will un-feature in a couple hours), there’s no demand you stop commenting in this thread. 😀

        • 17

          Sure would help though if we could keep the dedicated threads dedicated, no?

          • I think that’s just going to happen organically. As long as we keep open thread posts up a couple times a day!

        • Nancy

          you are very patient!
          thanks for having us all here.

  • Nancy
  • all_hail_the_hypno_toad

    What the establishment will do to keep the reigns of power eh. The problem is the tighter their grip the more likely someone like Trump and worse gets elected.

  • JonathanK X

    I just looked at the intro article and this one, but it looks like I’ll like the lay of the land over here.

    Good stuff. Alternet’s content has been worthless for awhile already. But now the comment threads there have become so infested with CTR Shillbots, it’s becoming the next The Hill or some such, with almost no one left there but the sock puppets.

    So we can name drop Jill here without setting off alarm bells that bring a bunch of Shillbots out to play?

    • SpiffyTheValiant

      Yes, you can. 🙂 Welcome. Always be on the look out for new threads.

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